Elvis - A Lighted Candle

[Wanda June Hill]

Elvis reading some biblical commentary and disagreeing by going to his Bible and telling "it like it is".

E: "The Bible says God's Rule has three catagories: Commandments, Judgements and Statutes.
!: Commandments reflect rules of PERSONAL conduct.
2. Judgement relate to the conduct of GOVERNMENT, State or SOCIAL LAW...which is considered to be paramount when there is no other law present at the time.
Now there are chapters following that which contains the Ten Commandments and it opens thus: "Now these are the judgements which you, (Moses) shall set before them (the people). Then in Verse 12: He who strikes a man (or woman) so that he dies shall surely be put to death.
Now, that IS the death penalty, and could it be clearer?"

He was upset that the then governor Brown had not held up for the death penalty in California. Elvis believed that in those cases where another caused death, especailly in cases of torture and painful prolonging death there ought to be an immediate trial, sentencing and the death penalty which ought to be carried out within three months especially in cases where the person admits to the crime and it is a hiddeoulsly (his word) planned and carried out merciless killing. And if it were not the first of such, the person ought to be hung by the neck until dead, and "to hell with being kind and gentle to such people, puttin' them to sleep! Gas 'em, hang 'em or string 'em up by the hands and slit em open from neck to pelvis an' let 'em hang there un die! They deserve equal misery for what they did!"
He also thought any body who'd hurt a child, beat them to cause pain and injury or sexually abuse them ought to have their arms cut off at the elbow! Then they'd remember what they did the rest of their lives. He definitely had some harsh ideas for punishment and he would have carried them out just as cold blooded as he sounded relating his views. And yet he could cry watching a movie, holding a little crippled child, and even cry when a baby bird he had tried to save didn't make it-even though "Gawd, I found a little worm an' he ate it for me-chirpped an' ever thing...un then he just lay down an' died all by his self in the little box." That was one of the first times I ever heard him use that so tender and hurt voice, like talking to a little child about something like that happening. He did it a time or two on stage, I heard that he found a lizzard that had come in and didn't make it indoors-on the edge of the stage and here Elvis is in full regala up there doing his thing, he walks over and says, "Oh, a little lizzard he's dead, bless his poor little heart." Then went on with the show. He was also known to pick "lady bugs" out of water so they wouldn't drown when he came across them at the barn or other places.
Pick up stray dogs in the desert if he could catch them, went in and bought a bag of dog food for some stray dogs that were hanging around the place he and the guys were playing at way back in 55 and fed and watered the dogs every evening they were there. When he left he got two bags and asked the janitor to feed the dogs and make sure they had water and try to find someone to collect them so they wouldn't die in the alleys or on the street. Bill Black told that story. wjh

[Barbara Lea]

WANDA DID HE EVER TELL YOU THAT LADY BUGS WERE CONSIDERED GOOD LUCK? I TOTSALY AGREE ABOUT WHAT HE SAYS ABOUT THE DEATH PENLATY, I HAVE ALWAYS SAID IF THEY BROUGHT BACK THE HANGING GALLOWS LIKE THEY HAD BACK IN THE WESTERN DAYS. THEN LEAVE THEM THERE SO THEY WOULD BE COME A GOOD EXAMPLE, FOR OTHERS THAT WERE THINKING OF DOING A CRIME. I THINK THE CRIME RATE WOULD DROP A LOT, AND ABOUT THE SCRIPTURE HE READ I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT IT LIKE THAT BUT IT CERTAINLY DOES SPEAK ABOUT THE DEATH PENALTY. BARB!

[Wanda June Hill]

Can you imagine the size of the audience if Elvis had become a preacher? An evangelist? Or sung gospel concerts and did a little talking too? He had a unique way of seeing things-usually very clearly and precise, cut and dried, black and white usually when it came to what the Bible said. And this is a man who asked the lady who had agreed to "stay with me, nothing will happen to you etc" his usual "Line" to pray with him and both got on their knees and he thanked God for her and asked forgivness for himself because he wanted her there. This young woman was astounded to say the least, but she stayed nearly 2 weeks with him and said, as far as she was concerned, he didn't need to be "forgiven". Anyway, he said that his "weakness, sin, I guess, is I like to have women around...I need them." (his words...) "I need them to help me in so many ways, I can't say them all, it'd take too long." And he said that God made him, He'd understand and look the other way if he made mistakes. And he didn't laugh. wjh

[Susan]

Personally, I'm against the death penalty - state-sanctioned killing of people - but I can see that there are particularly horrendous crimes, especially sexually sadistic serial crimes, where you might wonder.

The OT was for "An eye for eye, a tooth for tooth" but Jesus in the NT wasn't. Buddha wasn't into vegeance and revenge either.

I don't think any less of Elvis for his view because I know he was a deeply compassionate person. Maybe it was the depth of his compassion for the victims that prompted him to say such things.

I hope I'm not starting a big argument.

Susan M

[Wanda June Hill]

Hi, not with me you won't! Everyone has the perfect right to believe what they wish, so be it. I tend to think like Elvis when it comes to some of the horrific things that happen way too often to suit me. And I dislike having to think of the expense it costs to keep those people alive-some of them have it pretty good in prison if they have the means or family seeing after them-too good considering what they did to get there. It would make me happy if they all served some useful to humanity service while they were lifers -like medical research testing things etc;...they could even be paid for it, but at least it would be useful perhaps. Other people end up in jail for far less of a crime and do hard time longer than some child molesters etc;...that's not fair. Those are the things I would argue about! On a friendly basis of course. Elvis was hard line because he met so many people, heard some terrible things and saw some pitful sights in his many travels and charities as well. And being from the roots that he came from, he tended to see things black and white a good deal of the time when it came to certain things such as murder, etc:. We had some discussions and usually he won-because I got tired of trying to "dent his armor". I just liked hearing his views and getting him to actually SAY something instead of fooling around, joking and being silly...as he sometimes was. Don't worry, ever one can have there say here-and be happy about it. I'll tell you a secret-Elvis wasn't always right.... he was just stuborn. wjh

[Lighthouseseeker]

OMG! This time he sounded just like me. Wanda,I feel exactly the same way. For some crimes, the known punishments,standart ones are not enough for me,so I began to create my own ways which sounds so terrible.and when people hear me saying such things,they find it difficult to understand ,since they know me what a softie I am with animals even with some less fav ones insects and such and I can give my whole day to save one of them if it's possible so I understand him very good. When you have a lot love in your heart,seeing innocents get hurt ,makes you upset too bad .When it comes to death penalty,I don't feel comfortable about it too cause there's no a 100% justice on earth so innocent people could be sentenced as well.But such crimes,against kids and animals and those sadistic ones,exactly calls for some special punishment..most of the time,it's easy to forget the rights of the victims since they're gone and silence now..no, not for me..

[Amanda Viola]

Hello, Susan. I think it's the first time I see you in this forum. Maybe I'm wrong, but no matter what, I'm glad to meet you, specially when I see that we live in the antipodes! How nice to have the opportunity to communicate so easily.

Susan, I held exactly the same opinion you express in your post. And, sometimes, I wonder too.

Wanda, I agree with you when you mention that people in jails must be usefull to society, in a wide range of ways.

For me, jails should be a place where to keep people dangerous for society, not as a punishment but to protect us and try to help them to change their unsocial behavior. Those without remission, should be fully apart, having to earn their living there, everything, with work.

All this is very expensive. We are now only half way. It needs a lot of organization and specialists. It would help very much if all inmates could become rentables. It would be good for everybody. I still value very much each soul on Earth.

And Wanda, I love it when you say:

I'll tell you a secret-Elvis wasn't always right.... he was just stuborn.

[Susan]

Wanda,

Thanks for the touch of reality. It's too easy to put Elvis on a pedestal and make him out to be more perfect than he was. He was, after all, a human being with the limitations of his background and upbringing.

But, if he believed the words of "In the ghetto" he also had compassion for people who became criminals through the life cycle of poverty. We know he was on a spiritual path, how far along it I don't know. And he was surely on a mission from God.

"Thou shalt not kill". I don't think state killing of prisoners or, indeed, any human beings can be justified by saying that it costs money to keep them alive. Enough said.

To Amanda: Hello. I have contributed to the ELC forum before, but not often and not in this thread. Good to make contact. Where do you live?

Susan M
The power of love

[Amanda Viola]

Susan,

I refered to antipodes because I live in Spain. Was born in Barcelona but I'm living now about 100 Km. from Sevilla. Very, very far away from you.

[Blue Moon]

"Thou shalt not kill". I don't think state killing of prisoners or, indeed, any human beings can be justified

"Thou shall not kill" is a poor English translation. Should be "Thou shall not murder". Big difference here. There are plenty of examples of the dealth penalty used in the Old Testament, tho' I find many to be inappropiate for the crime mentioned.
True, Jesus talked about loving one's enemies in the New Testament, but I think he meant that on a personal level, not as an excuse for government to go soft on serious crime. It bothers me when there is more concern for the criminal than the victim.

I understand that people who do horrific crimes often, though not all, have rough childhoods. This does not excuse their behavior as an adult and to let them off with a television set in a jail cell for the rest of their lives does not add up to justice and accountability. And there is a difference between justice and vengance.
Some get religion & have a heart change, but not enough to justify going soft on these crimes. I would, however, do away with the dealth penalty on convictions where there was only circumstancial evidence, so that we don't risk excecuting an innocent person. DNA evidence has later found some on death row to be innocent.

At the same time, I agree with Wanda in that people are in prison way too long for minor crimes. I'm not a drug user but still think we got way too many pot smokers going to jail. They are not hurting anybody, so I say leave them alone. I think the war on drugs is sham anyway, an excuse for the government to have more control & further invade our privacy with searches etc.

[Susan]

["Thou shall not kill" is a poor English translation. Should be "Thou shall not murder". Big difference here.]

I don't wish to argue with anyone about semantics and translations. I do understand that the Biblical word used is not the usual word for "kill", but means something like "unlawful killing" or "murder".

Being killed ("executed") by a country may be legal but that doesn't necessarily make it morally right. I'm against any form of taking human life. In fact, I lean more towards Buddhism than Christianity because it is more compassionate and less judgmental. I've recently become a vegetarian because I'm also against killing other animals and, particularly, the way they are often kept in small confinement and the way they are killed.

As to what is appropriate punishment if you keep people alive instead of killing them legally - well, you can argue that out amongst yourselves. I think deprivation of liberty and loss of various rights, such as the right to vote (in the USA, anyway) is a very real punishment. Also, the bashings and brutality that go on in jails are not something I would want to experience myself. Elvis's father served a jail term himself. His mother felt very humiliated by the experience, which rubbed off on Elvis.

Well. I was worried that I'd started some sort of heated exchange. It's happening! I wanted not to say anything more, but it's hard not to respond in self defence.

Susan M
Love is positive and powerful; hate is negative and destructive

[Lighthouseseeker]

Hi Susan,you don't start anything it seems you're a very nice person..I am a vegetarian too and because of the same reason as you.. and must admit that number 1 crime in my book is the ones against animals and then to human being.This may sound weird ..but animals are the innocent and honest creatures in this planet and though they each have a power in their own environment,we,the human kind are always more succesful in killing them all that so called wild animals.. you know what methods are used for having their furs as just a coat on our back and I swear if I see any of those men hiting them with those bats,I'd kill them in a worse way or my methods of legal punisment for such people would be much more terrible than the countries use today.Everywhere around the world animals tortured just because of human kind's ugly and simple pleasure and no religion could change my feelings against those people ..cause as I can see nothing could stop this cruelty,anywhere around the globe..

[Sarena]

Hello,
I would rather agree with Susan concerning death penalty.

I´m also a vegetarian, Zey (Lighthouseseeker). The main reason because of non-violence against animals (and of health reasons of course, too). But because of non-violence I feel we should not condemn or feel bad about the PEOPLE, who are cruel to animals, but condemn the DEED and try to be an example ourself
Mahatma Gandhi (Prime example of non-violence) once said, a person who eats meat and is having loving thoughts about his fellow man is better than a vegetarian who has repeatedly resentful thoughts about meateaters.
Well, that`s a very deep subject.....anyway, I wanted to share my opinion.

Christine

[Guest]

Hi Christine..I think there's a little misunderstanding about what I said about animals..it wasn't about the people who still eat meat..so is my family,so was Elvis and I wasn't a vegetarian my whole life so I'm not better than anyone who eats meat..it was about the cruelty, the crime against animals just like the people in my neighbourhood who buried alive new born dogs I later learn she died in a fire that was good.Do you think these people could have"loving thoughts for their fellow men"..they are killing those lovely and innocent creatures for their furs and there are more terrible examples on cruelty on animals which makes me sick and these people "not" the ones I could forgive or love in no condition..and I don't think we,the humans are superior than the other creatures on earth or in the universe.Sorry if I offended anyone but need to repeat again my words wasn't against people who eats meat..it was about murder and the punishment they deserve..

[Lighthouseseeker]

the guest was me ..